A Conversation about Universes

A believer preaching on the street is confronted by an atheist.

Atheist: Why do you preach that silly stuff? There is no evidence that God exists. 

Believer: Look around you. How could all of this come into being without a Creator? 

Atheist: It all came into being from the big bang of the universe.

Believer: And what caused the big bang?

Atheist: Nobody knows, but it wasn't God.

Believer: How do you know that?

Atheist: Real scientists believe it wasn't God. 

Believer: So, you have faith that it wasn't God.

Atheist: I believe the real scientists.

Believer: But what if the real scientists are wrong, and God really created the universe? 

Atheist: I just believe the real scientists. 

Believer: But you just admitted that no one knows how the big bang started. So, the real scientists could be wrong. 

Atheist: But we do know that from the big bang, the universe evolved into stars and galaxies, and the stars produced the chemical elements that on a planet with a lot of water life evolved. This all took billions of years. 

Believer: Intelligent life too?

Atheist: Yes.

Believer: Life evolved in a nonconscious universe?

Atheist: Over billions of years, yes. 

Believer: Science works by observation and experimentation, right?

Atheist: Right.

Believer: Has anyone ever observed a nonconscious object produce anything?

Atheist: A corpse produces fertilizer. 

Believer: But that is a natural process. Nonconscious objects never produce complex, creative systems. 

Atheist: But it could over billions of years. 

Believer: But if no one ever observes a nonconscious object produce any complex, creative system, would it not be safe to conclude, by inductive reasoning, that nonconscious objects never produce complex, creative systems. 

Atheist: But anything can happen in billions of years.

Believer: But is that not just your faith?

Atheist: Well, I believe that God does not exist all right.

Believer: Did you know that science has discovered that our universe happens to be extremely fine-tuned to certain mathematical constants that makes life, and intelligent life, possible. Without that exact tuning, life could not exist. 

Atheist: Yes, but that simply means that out of an infinite number of possible universes, ours just happened to be the one that was fine-tuned so that life could evolve into existence. 

Believer: But isn't that all just a matter of your faith?

Atheist: Well, I certainly don't believe in God.

Believer: But you do believe that a nonconscious process produced an infinite number of possible universes out of which one was selected to be fine-tuned to the extent that it could evolve life. Isn't that nonconscious process really your God? 

Atheist: But our universe was nonconscious before life came into being. 

Believer: How do you know that?

Atheist: Because I can look into the past of our universe, and I can see that it evolved until it produced life. 

Believer: But how do you know that that process was nonconscious? 

Atheist: Because I can see that that process took place in the past. 

Believer: You used the word quote "see." That means you had to use your imagination, which is a product of your consciousness, to overcome the supposed nonconsciousness of our universe in order to trace the processes in our universe that you believe evolved life. 

Atheist: But can't I imagine a nonconscious universe?

Believer: No, you cannot because as soon as you imagine it, you annul its nonconsciousness.

Atheist: But I believe I can.

Believer: You used the word "see." That word was necessary for the universe that you imagined. That proves that no universe can exist without the creation of an intelligent consciousness, even if only in the imagination. 

Atheist: Well, I am determined to disbelieve. 

Believer: Our universe had to have had an Infinite Intelligent Consciousness to create it, but with more than just imagination. God objectified His goodness to create our universe, including all living humans. Read Genesis 1:31; Genesis 1:26-27; Hebrews 11:3, and Romans 11:36. (KJB). 

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How precious is the smiling child

Who wobbles through the world.

Whether it's a little boy,

Or whether it's a little girl.  

The Fiery Wrath of God

                            Proverbs 6:27-29 KJB 

One would think that if a person took fire into his bosom, then his belly and his clothes would be burned. And if a person walked on fiery coals, then his feet would be burned. But there are people who walk on fiery coals, and their feet do not get burned. But they report that they have strange feelings after they do that. These verses liken sin to fire which a person may play with for a while and not get burned, but their conscience and their innocence will always be burned. 

The person who commits adultery may seem to get away with that sin, but his innocence is damaged. Many people play around with sin for a long time, and they enjoy its pleasures for a season, but in time their sins will start to severely burn them. Sin will eventually take their health, their money, and they may even wind up in prison. But even if they seem to get away with sin, it always hardens their conscience. 

God understands that humans are too weak to avoid sin. All humans inevitably sin. Romans 3:23 (KJB). For this reason, God often does not directly punish a person for their sins, but He will allow the destructive effects of continued sin to break a person so that they may turn to Him when they hear the gospel and repent and put their faith in Christ who alone can save them from their sins. Romans 5:5-9 (KJB). God will also sometimes save young people who were raised in Christian homes because He makes them understand how destructive sin will be in their lives and that God will send them to one of the three regions of death if they do not repent. II Timothy 3:14-15 (KJB). All humans saved by grace try very hard to avoid sin because they love the Lord, and they hate sin. Yet even humans saved by grace sometimes sin, but God will always forgive them when they confess and repent. I John 1:5-10 (KJB). 

Sin happens to be inevitable, but the practice of evil is not inevitable. A person becomes evil because their conscience becomes so hardened that they become capable of committing terrible acts of cruelty to their fellow humans. Evil humans decide to become evil. Extremely evil humans seldom become saved by grace because they hate God. The Bible records that the only evil person who became saved by grace was Saul of Tarsus. Acts 9:1-6 (KJB). 

Those who hate God will also hate His believers. John 17:14 (KJB). Yet Jesus commanded His believers to "Love your enemies." Luke 6:27 (KJB). His commandment can only mean God loves His enemies. But God also hates evil. Psalm 45:6-7 (KJB). Like God, Christians should hate sins and evil, but, like God, Christians can love their enemies because God creates every human in His image with the capability of repentance, love for God, and reconciliation with God. Genesis 1:31; Genesis 1:26-27; II Peter 3:9 (KJB). The Holy Spirit has written that God will "reconcile all things to Himself." Colossians 1:20 (KJB). Christ has promised: "Behold, I make all things new." Revelation 21:5 (KJB). This Word of God can only mean that God has a plan to cause all of His living humans eventually to repent and return to faith in Christ as their Savior. John 5:24; Revelation 5:11-14 (KJB). 

God never uses His fiery wrath to permanently burn anything except sins, evil, spiritual death, and the Devil. Revelation 20:11-15; Revelation 20:10 (KJB). God uses His fiery wrath against evil to permanently purge His creation of all sins, evil, spiritual death, and the Devil so that He can recreate it all to be wholly righteous, including all of His living humans who have been soiled by sin and evil. II Peter 3:9-13 (KJB).  

The Fiery Wrath of God

                               Psalm 148:8 KJB

In this Psalm, the Psalmist exhorts God's entire creation to praise Him forever. God created His entire creation to last forever. Psalm 148:6 (KJB). His entire creation includes "all people" who will praise Him forever. Psalm 148:11 (KJB). This fact can only mean that God will save the entire human race that He creates in His image, some by His grace and all others in the end of the world but with a lesser form of salvation. Genesis 1:26-27; John 5:24; Revelation 5:11-14 (KJB). God describes His recreation of all that He created in Revelation 21:1-5 (KJB). In verse five, He promised "Behold, I make all things new." This promise must include the entire human race. 

God can use "hail," "snow," "vapour," and "stormy wind" in creative ways, but God will use His fiery wrath to destroy all evil from His creation. II Peter 3:9-13; Psalm 148:8 (KJB). God's fiery wrath is a part of who God is. Hebrews 12:29 (KJB). When God creates or destroys, He objectifies a part of Himself. Hebrews 11:3 (KJB). God's creations will be good, but they will never be as Holy as He is. Genesis 1:31 (KJB). 

God creates humans in His image, but when humans sin, the Devil plants spiritual death into the inner beings of all humans which is an evil that causes all humans to sin unavoidably. Genesis 1:26-27; Genesis 2:17; Genesis 3:15 (KJB). Humans cannot overcome this spiritual death. Romans 5:6 (KJB). This spiritual death will utterly destroy all living humans unless God comes to man's rescue. Christ suffered that spiritual death, and all of the sins and evil that causes it and that it causes, on a cruel cross in the place of all humanity, I John 2:2 (KJB). Christ shed His blood and water on the cross to save all living humans whom He would save by His grace. Matthew 26:28; I John 1:7; John 5:24 (KJB). But when Christ died on the cross, He sent His Spirit into Hell to complete the salvation of the rest of humanity. Luke 23:46 (KJB). In the end of the world, Christ will visit all humans "on the earth, and under the earth," and He will cause them all to repent and return to faith in Him as their Savior. Revelation 5:11-14 (KJB). He will then use His fiery wrath against evil to dissolve their beings to separate His repentant, living humans from their dead and evil natures so that He can cleanse and save His living humans from eternal death, and He will cast their separated, dead and evil natures into the eternal fire of Hell. Revelation 5:11-14; Psalm 16:9-11; Acts 2:25-31; II Peter 3:9-13; Psalm 75:3 (KJB). The Holy Spirit made this possible because He took all of the sins, evil, and spiritual deaths of all humans not saved by grace that Jesus bore on the cross to a burning Hell where they would be trapped forever. I John 2:2; Psalm 16:9-11; Acts 2:25-31. The Holy Spirit sacrificed Himself to cause Christ to be able to use His fiery wrath to save the rest of humanity not saved by grace. The Holy Spirit then rose immaculate from the dead to reanimate the perfect body of Jesus so that He could rise from the dead with a complete and absolute victory over all sins, evil, spiritual death, and the Devil. Revelation 1:17-18; I Peter 3:18; II Timothy 1:10; I John 3:8; I Timothy 4:10; Matthew 15:13 (KJB). 

If Christ saves only by His grace, then II Timothy 1:10 would have to state that Christ "abolished death" for only humans whom He saves by His grace. But II Timothy 1:10 teaches that Christ "abolished death" itself, and that can only mean that since all humans are alive in His sight, then He will save His entire, living humans race from eternal death. The descent of the Holy Spirit into Hell is also a part of the gospel. I Corinthians 15:26; Luke 20:38 (KJB). 

The Fiery Wrath of God

                              Psalm 140:10 KJB

In this Psalm, king David accurately describes humans who have given their lives to the practice of evil. King David wanted God to cast them into a burning Hell and never resurrect them. Psalm 140:10 (KJB). King David was right that one day God will cast all the dead and evil natures of all humans, who did not become saved by grace, into an eternal lake of fire. Revelation 20:11-15 (KJB). King David forgot that in his own life, he had at times practiced evil, but he knew how to repent and get right with God. David had a good nature that made him capable of repentance. Psalm 51:9-10 (KJB). All humans have a good and living nature that makes them capable of repentance. David had ignored God's teaching in Genesis that He creates every human in His image with a good and living nature. Genesis 1:31; Genesis 1:26-27 (KJB). That good and living nature makes all humans capable of repentance and faith, and God will make certain that, sooner or later, all humans will repent and return to faith in Christ as their Savior. John 5:24; Revelation 5:11-14 (KJB). But toward the end of this Psalm, king David seemed to be reminded by the Holy Spirit that God knows the good and living natures of all of His living humans, and He will save them all. Psalm 140:12-13 (KJB). David's reference to the "right of the poor" reminds one of Jesus' teachings: "Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven." Matthew 5:3 (KJB).  

Total evil hates God and is incapable of repentance. Matthew 12:31-32 (KJB). If God ever casts any of His living humans that He creates and loves into an eternal lake of fire, He could only do so if they had become totally evil and demonic. Since all humans are alive in God's sight, then that can never happen. Luke 20:38 (KJB). God can never cast any of His living humans into an eternal lake of fire because they all are created in His image, and he would lose a part of His own goodness to eternal evil. But God knows how to cause them all to repent and return to faith in Him. John 5:24; Revelation 5:11-14 (KJB). God gives to every human a set of good works that He expects them to do. Isaiah 26:12 (KJB). Most humans do only a part of them, which is sinful, but what happens to those good works that they do if they were to become totally evil? They would be meaningless. God can never lose anything He has ever created, and His Love can never fail. Ecclesiastes 3:14; I Corinthians 13:8 (KJB). In the end of the world, Christ will visit all of His living humans "on the earth, and under the earth," and He will cause them all to repent and return to faith in Him as their Savior so that He can use His fiery wrath against evil to dissolve their beings to separate their repentant, good and living natures from their dead and evil natures so that He can save and recreate their good and living natures with new bodies to live forever on His recreated earth, and He will cast their dead and evil natures into the eternal lake of fire. Revelation 5:11-14; II Peter 3:9-13; Revelation 20:11-15; Revelation 21:1-5; Psalm 75:3; Philippians 2:9-11; John 5:28-29; John 11:25-26; Psalm 36:6 (KJB).  

The Fiery Wrath of God

                                Psalm 118:12 KJB

King David praised the Lord because the Lord gave him victory over all his enemies and his people's enemies. In his time, king David had the best armies, and so he seldom lost a battle. King David gave credit to God for his victories over his enemies. Over the centuries, many nations have been used by the Devil in their attempts to utterly destroy the Jewish people because evil desires to put out the light of God's Word forever. Ten tribes of the Israelites were destroyed by the Devil's armies because they turned to idol worship. But God preserved the tribes of Judah and Benjamin because a remnant faithful to God has always been there. 

God caused David to burn the idols of his and God's enemies so that he could gain a complete victory over them. Psalm 118:12; II Samuel 5:21 (KJB). Just as God uses His fiery wrath against evil, He allows His servants to use their own fiery wrath against their enemies. It is quite significant that king David used the word "thorns" to describe worthless evil that needs to be burned with fire. All through the Bible, God uses the words "thorns," "chaff," "tares," and similar words to describe how worthless evil should be destroyed by being burned. Matthew 13:36-43; Luke 3:16-17; Isaiah 9:18 (KJB). 

In the end of the world, God will burn only the worthless and destructive evil, and the Devil that has soiled His creation, and He will recreate His purged creation to be totally righteous. II Peter 3:9-13 (KJB). God will use His fiery wrath against evil to dissolve all humans, "on the earth, and under the earth," so that He can separate their repentant, good and living natures that He created from their dead and evil natures that He will cast into an eternal lake of fire. Christ will cause all of His living humans to repent and return to faith in Him as their Savior. Revelation 5:11-14; Psalm 75:3; Habakkuk 2:4; I Corinthians 3:11-15; John 5:28-29; John 11:25-26 (KJB). God will save and recreate His entire creation, including all of His living humans, and He will burn up only the worthless sins, evil, spiritual death, and the Devil. II Peter 3:9-13; Revelation 21:1-5 (KJB). God can never lose anything He has ever created, and His Love can never fail. Ecclesiastes 3:14; Psalm 111:7-8; I Corinthians 13:8 (KJB).  

The Fiery Wrath of God

                          Psalm 106:18 KJB

This Psalm happens to be about how God protects His people who have faith in Him, but when His people fall into habitual sin and evil, He will always forgive and restore them to Himself whenever they repent. 

But God will also always burn the wicked. Psalm 106:18 (KJB). Whom does God say these wicked are? Jesus, being God, surely could answer that question. If salt could lose its saltness; that is, its ability to preserve food, it would be worthless and should be thrown away. Matthew 5:13 (KJB). Trees which bring forth no good fruit whatsoever are cast into the fire. Matthew 7:19 (KJB). Christ will forgive any sin or evil upon repentance and faith, but the person who absolutely rejects the call of the Holy Spirit to repent does so because that person hates God, and God will never forgive that person because he is totally evil. Matthew 12:31-32 (KJB). Every human has a good treasure in his heart created by God, and every human also has an evil treasure planted into his heart by the Devil. Matthew 12:35; Genesis 1:31; Genesis 1:26-27; Genesis 3:15 (KJB). God created all humans to possess the "seed" of goodness, but the Devil planted his "tares" of evil. But in the end of the world, God will cause all of His righteous people to repent of being soiled by evil so that He can save them from eternal death, and He will cast their evil natures into an eternal flame. Only the "tares" planted by the Devil will be burned. Matthew 13:36-43; Revelation 5:11-14 (KJB). God will root up and destroy everything that the Devil has ever planted, and He will save all that He has planted. Matthew 15:13; Ecclesiastes 3:14; Psalm 36:6 (KJB). Clearly, Jesus taught that He will forever burn only that which is totally evil. 

Good people who allow evil to dominate their lives can rightly be called evil, and sometimes God uses His fiery wrath to cast evil people into a burning Hell. Psalm 106:17 (KJB). God casts their good natures into Hell with their evil natures. But in the end of the world, God will use His fiery wrath to dissolve their beings to separate their repentant, good and living natures for Him to recreate from their totally dead and evil natures whom He will cast into the eternal lake of fire. Revelation 5:11-14; Revelation 20:11-15; Revelation 21:1-5; II Peter 3:9-13 (KJB). 

Every person, except for sociopaths, can feel remorse for the sin and evil that they may do. But remorse is not the same as repentance. Repentance means that a person desires to be reconciled with God. But no one can feel remorse or repentance unless that person has a good nature. Judas Iscariot had remorse but no repentance. Matthew 27:3-5 (KJB). Simon Peter had both remorse and repentance. Matthew 26:74-75 (KJB). The rich man in Hell who asked Abraham to send Lazarus to preach to his five brothers so that they would repent and not come to Hell proved that he still retained his good nature. Luke 16:27-31 (KJB). Jesus Christ never changes. Hebrews 13:8 (KJB). The Love and compassion of Christ will always cause Him to forgive and reclaim every good and living nature of every human who ever repents and desires to be reconciled with God whether they are alive on the earth, or they are confined to one of the three regions of death. John 5:24; John 11:25-26; Revelation 5:11-14; Colossians 1:15-20; John 5:28-29; I Timothy 4:10 (KJB). Nowhere does the Bible teach that God will not save a person after their physical death. The only possible exception to this rule is the sociopath who so violently suppresses his good nature that he can feel no remorse. Such a person comes close to being totally evil. But since God can never lose anything He has ever created, then there must be some tiny amount of goodness even in the sociopath whom God will cause to repent and return to faith in Christ in the end of the world. Revelation 5:11-14; Ecclesiastes 3:14 (KJB).